iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

Larry and Paul Crankin up Yirdaki !!!!

Paul

Sounds good Paul, listening to Larry and you side-by-side, the difference it seems to me is that there is less 'movement' in Larry's tonguings between the baseline drrong-drrong-drrong and the tongued accents. Larry is able to change rapidly between the drrongs and the tongued dhit flicks. I'd like to try this rhythm too, let me practice a little first and I'll make a recording.

Guan

Thanks Guan
Also it sounds to me as if, for the first 10secs anyway, that the "dhits" are executed differently to the rest of the clip, in other words, the "dhits" in the first 10 secs sound like he is actually making the toungued pop sound (that we were practising a while ago)with quite a bit of exhalation to it yet in the rest of the clip the "diths" sound more like normal "Dups" ??? Know what you mean about the "movement" particulary in the last section where its really noticeable, I seem to finish off the "notes" have a very small gap then execute the accents, Larry seems to end the "notes" with the dhits!!! more practise needed. Also noted with interest what you said on facebook about Mikey stating that each player has his own style, he certainly has!!! , and thats why I think I find it hard to imitate say Larry, Mikey/Laga exactly, as whilst they are the ones I try to copy, their mouths and tongues are not mine, the movements inside will never be the same as mine. Even though the above players I think have had Larry as their "model" I bet they can't copy him exactly either??

Thanks Paul

Hi Paul, I am not sure how else to put this. Your tongue movement and pressure sound light, especially the stop into the teeth/lips. There is not as much push/gravity in the dith and not as strong duplet feel in the Dhirrl, I think you need some more chunky pressure changes and power reserve in the throat/ chest/belly pushing/pulling the sound behind the tongue. Not heaving motions, just more use of pressure and breath. I think this is one of the characteristic things about Larry's playing, the coupling of pressure, throat movement and really strong tongue motion. He especially has an ability to heavily push/pull and inflect the Dith upward with the movement and pressure. Rhythmic flow mimicing Larry's composition sounds pretty nice.

Thanks Ben for your constructive comments, I understand what you are saying and will try to incorporate those observations into my practise. Larry is physically huge compared to my small 5' 6" frame so maybe this helps him a bit to get that "big" sound? even so there is room for improvement for me in theses areas also so I will give it a bit more practise and post another clip.

all the best Paul

Keep at it mate, I think it is technique and the strength of smaller muscle groups in the mouth and throat than big dude strength and physical size. I am a few inches taller than 5'6" , but no big dude by any means. I can get some of this chunkier rhythmic depth when I practice a lot (which I have not had time for recently). But it is the mouth and throat that get the workout, not the body core.

I think really simple technique exercises really help, especially done slowly like just repeating Dith--LL- Dith Dith over and over again like the opening of many of Larry's compositions, just focusing on each sound, or just Dhirrl..... Dhirll holding the LL like the slow part of gudurrku without embellishment... really slow to get the distinct sound change in the double beat from front to back tongue position. After 10 minutes of this kind of practice the mouth muscles get fatigued and hours later I'll feel an ache in the throat from the workout.

I just carved a didge to sound very close to that one Larry plays so I can practice crankin'. Though not finished, it is playable. I am off to teach for ten days, and I'll take it along. Hopefully I can carve out 10-15 minutes a day to work on this.

Cheers!

And again, this time me only. not quite a copy of Larry's first 25secs as got lost in the middle!!! but near enough

Hi Paul,

The phrasing in your last clip is odd and there is a strange upwards inflection on the dith. Listen again to Larry's timing and pace and compare it to yours. I think you'll find they're quite different.

That makes sense Kyle, also I thought maybe lip strength? Try to develop the musculature in the lips Paul so when you're blowing, only a small part of your lips are vibrating like at the very front few millimetres. That will really tighten the sound you're getting and give it some oophf behind it too. I think that's the "secret" to strong trad playing, having that really powerful front of mouth strength and the supporting strength required from there to the diaphragm.

Guan

Thanks both, I did think my lips were doing this anyway (they are pretty tight already)so maybe I need to give a bit more atention to this. Also can you clarify what you think Larry is doing with his tongue in the first part of the clip with the diths... as to me he sounds like he is exhaling and tightening his lips to get that blown "pop" sound and not doing a dith at all, just using his tongue to "shut off" off the exhalation, if that makes any sense. Must admit I am getting pretty despondant practising this particular clip, just think I am getting nowhere, just when I think I have moved forward I realise I haven't and have to start back to square one again!! maybe I should give up trying to copy others and just be myself? Instruments are away now, had enough for one day...

Thanks Paul

What seconds is that?

Guan

The "diths" in the first 9 secs or so

Paul

I think what you say is correct Paul with the tightening of the lips, I can also hear tongue in those 9 seconds but that yirdaki he was playing was naturally raspy sounding, its hard to achieve the same sound on most yirdaki. The thing is technique and you're almost there mate, you've leapt from like 30-40% to 70-80% in quick step, if you consolidate what you have now and get strong at it, then move the next step to the next challenge, don't take too great a leap there buddy! We've got to remember that what we're hearing is coming from a great technician and a great yirdaki player, we're comparing ourselves to the best.

Guan

Thanks for the encouragement Guan. I have given it a lot of practise over the last couple of days and feel I have got nowhere, hence the negative outlook at the moment ( be OK t/moro). My problem is that I want to practise all and everything Larry, Mikey, laga, Djalu, Vernon and every other good player + Mago (don't cos i just haven't got enough time) so I jump from one to the other so I don't get "stuck" on one style. Hopefully then I will have enough experience when I play my own freestyle. Anyway, really looking forward to coming over, hopefully you can give me some tips and point out flaws in my technique of which I am sure there are many..

Cheers Paul

Any time Paul, don't see them as flaws but as challenges, even when technique is correct it still takes training, I find yirdaki playing like a sport actually, think of a sprinter, a guy could have good technique but not very fast to start with and it is until he has had the training and strength that he will start to run fast, on the flip side, a naturally strong guy who is a born athlete might not be able to run faster either because he doesn't have good technique. Training is the key and Yolngu do it too to maintain their edge over others.

Guan