iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

I just found out that there will be a full moon tonight or tomorrow morning, depends on your location/time zone. It will be the CLOSEST the moon has been to the Earth since 1993, that's 18 years. Makes me think back to what I was doing in 1993, what stage in life I was in then, what were my dreams for the future, what I hoped to be...

1993 was a significant year for me in many ways, it turned my life around. 18 years of journeying, searching, wandering (wondering?)...

I just learnt some facts about the moon... it was formed as the result of an impact of a large object onto Earth... Earth absorbed the denser material from that object (thus explaining Earth's iron core) while the impact threw off lighter material which ended up as the moon, the impact baked the sun so all its volatiles (water) evaporated.

The moon is amazing on a number of levels, not least of which is that it is the reason for life on Earth. So it seems just a coincidence that we have life, I'd think of it as a miracle so slim are the odds...

We also live in very special times on this planet. Well as far as astronomy-astrology are concerned. The moon and the sun are the same size as observed from Earth at this time/era, allowing us to view full eclipses. This will change in the future as the moon moves further and further away from Earth. In the distant future, when the moon is a lot lot further away from Earth, we would have 1000 hour days, and half the planet will never see the moon and the other half will see it constantly.

I prefer to have 24 hour days, and to be able to see the moon in all stages of undress lol!

Where's this story going... of that's right, there's a thread on Facebook about thinking of the moon as it reaches its closest point to Earth in 18 years, let us all pray that other miracles happen. That what we have is precious and that life sustains itself well into the future and that we are a part of it. I feel that life is not meant to be like this as we are currently living it, this is not the life and planet I signed up for.

Let's pray and hope, whatever your beliefs/religion/part of the world you live... I'll be thinking of everyone on this forum tonight, and every being that I've known.

Guan

Well, thank you for all these kind thoughts Guan.
I won't say how I feel, since I'm a taoist that's rather complicated,
but I just wanted to say the odds of life are actually extremely high.

I did undergraduate chemistry, and I saw a study where they took all the C.H.O.N.S. elements (carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur) -- either they were from space or they were completely sterilized -- and they put them in void like conditions and made a lot of electrical currents go through it (like it probably happened in the first storms in the first atmosphere, when the ground was still molten stuff). Well, I'm happy to tell you life always appeared (they did it with various combinations of the above elements). Yay.

Where the odds dramatically fall, is that today's lifeforms managed to reach such a level of complexity. Not that is unlikely in itself (since that's what organisms do, to get more complex), but that the earth avoided any major disasters for so long is lucky.
We're lucky to be here. Still, we've got a lot work to do. Not tonight of course. Happy full moon party to each and everyone of you!

Hi Joe,

I'm interested to know what you think of all of this as a Taoist

Latest I heard is that the oil spill and the Japanese radioactive drift are going to have an enormous global effect. And Libya has just been "missiled" by the USA and Britain.

When is this sort of stuff going to stop?!?

Guan

This kind of stuff will probably not end until sustainable solutions are found to food, economical and environmental issues -- which might take a long time. IMHO, it's really going to start when fusion energy and genetic therapies will be massively available. So that's another 50 years of patience.

Well, since you've asked, words like "pray" and "hope" are void to me, not that I deny they don't work for others, but I feel more at home with a more realistic angle, namely, that global awereness of the lack of balance in our world can only be reached through education, but furthermore, that any real change in how things are is going to come from the people in charge -- not only governments, but all the people that are for the time being above law, the big companies and IMF like organisations. Thankfully, our lawyer friends are setting up the concept of "economical crime", but it's going to be awhile before public opinion is massive enough to pressure these groups to stop all that is detrimental in the long term to natural or human systems. It would be quicker if we could change these groups from the inside, but let's face it, once you're used to making a quick buck no matter the consequences, there is no turning back. So once again, our best chance is education (I don't believe in violence), but again, it's going to take awhile.

Maybe it's not Laozi but Marx that needs to be blamed for my approach. I'll add I'm not a communist, but Marx's economical theory is needed if anyone is to understand today's economy. I'm not talking about the political conclusions he drove from his analysis -- conclusions which by the way I disagree with. The book one of "The capital" is a good read for anyone with time on his hands, and should be taught in highschools.

Laozi says things like "let them be, it will work out eventually" because he lived in an unstable world still dominated by nature, where cycles were much quicker. If we were to follow Lao-tse today, we would all have to tear apart our ids and credit cards and go and try to survive in the wild (the only way of 'not caring' since even our passive living reinforces those systems). If we all did that, well eventually civilisation would collapse and the generalized overexploitation would end. But I don't want that. Plus we don't all have the guts to do that. Plus it might fail since those groups setting the pace are too stable now and they even might survive that. So Lao-tse, not very practical.

Laozi (Lao Tze/Tzu) is also a great read (and it's ultra short!), but if you want to read more about taoism, there's Zhuangzi (Chuang Tze/Tzu). It's longer but that's mostly collected stories and anecdotes, so it's more fun to read than Laozi.

Thank you for your explanations Joe, much appreciated.

Say, you really think genetics could be part of the answer like the Green Revolution was several decades ago?

I might chase up some of the names you mentioned, they sound interesting, thanks mate.

Guan

No. The green revolution was just an illusion, a bit like 2007 financial crach: sure it allowed an amazing production/wealth (for some), but a lot of economies and ecosystems were ruined afterwards because the long-term had temporarily been out of sight. Even since the beginning of the industrialization of agriculture, there were a lot of sustainability issues (sterelity, pollution, destruction of ecosystems, starvation because of crop specialization, etc), but they were ignored for the reason of profit.
The case of the green revolution is worse, because it also showed how genetic pollution works, ie that an undaptable crop we engineered can destroy all the similar species. They've started making self-destructing crops, but the issue is to make GMO genes not dominant; I can't trust a plant programmed to self-destroy.

Plus because of public opinion, they develop GMO in a more quiet way, but what they do today is Modifying Cellularly the Organisms -- to summarize, a plant cell is more simple than our own (with a breathing component, a guarding/cleaning component, etc), and because plants haven't got a immunitary system like our own, it's possible to put one component of one plant into another plant: so the organism is still modified (with the problems we already know), but that's not a genetic modification (it's a cellular one), and they can set most caracteristics they want.

Genetic therapies, on the other hand, have nothing to do with creating new beings without sustainability test (for example, no one as tested the GMO crops to see if they don't extinct/mutate from a genetic cause 100 generations from now. When you know evolution has had to face billions of generations, it makes me feel uneasy)
but are only about allowing medical treatments to work on a predetermined person. They are for curing genetic diseases, and the other theoretical application would be to cure cancer (and possibly aids, I'll have to document myself, but since I know everything revolves around the CT4, I don't see why not).

My point was once a part of mankind can have limitless energy and cures for everything, the greed of individuals/groups will be killing people (even more than now), so we'll have an ethical mean of pressure (trial for genocide) and that's when mankind will start acting as one, taking care of each of its members, when we'll all finally start feeling responsible for each other.
That's taoist though: everything is intertwinned, everything is connected, all is one. But it's uphold by science, so no problem here.

You're speaking to a plant geneticist here Joe so no worries haha

About the difference between genetically-modified crops and cellularly-modified crops, I haven't heard of the latter to be honest, is it a new thing? I've long divorced myself from all things genetics and have no idea what the industry is up to these days.

By your definition, I'd be a Taoist too then! Do you do anything as a Taoist to maintain yourself as a Taoist?

Cheers brother,

Guan

lol For some reason, I've always thought your major was in anthropology or something...


Yes, actually that's a friend doing biochemistry that told me about it; I've also quitted, I'm studying language acquisition and linguistics now.


Not really, because as you will see, Lao Tzu is pretty obscure, especially on the practice chapter. What helped me maintain is Zen meditation. Though I changed the canon a bit, since I did that while walking in the forest. It helped my taoism because I have a lot of anger problems (used to be an alcoholic too, why I relate to Aboriginal issues).

Cheers bro.

Hey Joe,

I was in the biological sciences stream to start with majoring in plant biochemistry and genetics, did my Honours year in ornamental tobacco protein analysis and genetic expression. Our lab was focussed on producing new crop strains that were resistant to insect attack and environmental stress, the theory being that farmers could do away with pesticides and thus causing less damage to the environment. I have a lot of respect for the science and met some really great people along the way.

I only turned to anthropology later, had no background in it whatsoever so had a lot of catch up reading to do. Did field research in Ramingining and surrounds as part of my PhD program looking into Yolngu land management issues. And fell in love with the yidaki at the same time!

My feeling is that a lot of us have anger issues, anger is natural and not something to suppress, however the way we respond to our own anger is important I think, we can acknowledge that it is there, that it exists, and then to integrate that into our being and to understand why it is there and to respond accordingly with thought and consideration. Well I'm rambling now sorry...

Guan

Guan,

I wondered what your background was, pretty impressive. I consider myself enlightened on the subject.

I remember with amusement the world-wide year 2000 electronic disaster fiasco. My compadres and I were put on heightened alert in the event something drastic occurred at the the hospital where we work.

One axiom I have never been able to find fault with..."It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature", and Mother Nature does pretty much whatever she will.

As you undoubtedly know, much has been said lately concerning the December 21, 2012 end of the Mayan calendar. I believe that whatever happens on this old earth, if man cannot be found to be directly responsible, will happen regardless of man's beliefs, calendars, predictions, etc. The earth does its thing because it is part of our magnificent and mysterious universe, which is ever changing. Just my view, hope no one is offended.

Bruce

Hey Bruce,

Great to have you join the discussion, I doubt anyone is offended by anything said on this forum, we're a chilled out bunch

Disagreements sometimes but that's a good thing... worst thing that can happen in any forum is when everyone agrees with everything said - boring!

I used to think that humanity was unimportant as far as our place on Earth is concerned, that we're just like any other creature shaped by evolutionary forces. As I look more into spirituality, that old view of mine is being replaced by something else, that something else is not fully formed yet as I'm still reading and learning new stuff on a daily basis. I do feel though that we're living in VERY interesting times...

Well take care people, enjoy the weekend!

Guan