iDIDJ Australia Didgeridoo Cultural Hub

Khannan31,

Just one thing that I wanted to point out. Your posts always include the spelling: Dhrill.
If you observe the spelling of what others are writing you, you'll notice the spelling is Dhirrl. The slight change will have a tremendous effect on your sound.

Peace.

Kannan, its awesome you're getting straight to trad style!!!

For me, the difference between trad n contemporary is firstly technique, how the tongue moves etc. As a result of that, style is also different, style as in the composition itself, the "beats/tune/pattern" as you put it.

I think you already sound tradishish (is there such a word?), like your compositions are modelled along trad lines, that's what I'm hearing anyway. To get even better, focus more on technique. I'm not sure about "dhrill" and whether that's really correct, is that from Milkay's album? Maybe its more of a "dhil" or "dhil" if we're using Yolngu Matha orthography as there's no tongue flap, or vibrating/rolling effect of the tongue on tongued accents. What I meant by improving on your tongued accents by creating these curly inflections is not to actually curl your tongue when playing the accents but the tone of the accent appears "curled". That just happens or should happen when the oral cavity size is quickly reduced... by squeezing in the cheeks and at the same time the tongue moving forward. In your next sound clip upload, play slower n if you have a lower key yirdaki, use that, but if the G is all you've got, play slower and every time you play the tongued accent, focus on varying the harmonics of the accent.

Guan

Hi Khannan
Looks like we have provoked quite a discussion here and with the PV thing as well, that is great cos I have learn't a great deal from Ben and his soundfiles, invaluable!!

Regarding the tongue accents on the quick dhirrl sound that we seem to be looking at here. For me I don't roll my tongue at all but it is quite a quick forceful flick back, which may take a bit of practice, where my tongue ends up at the front of the roof of my mouth just about where the roof of the mouth flattens out, so not too far back. But it is not the tongue alone that gives that nice rolling sound but a combination of the tongue, a small pulse from the diaphram which creates the "punch" in the "D" of dhirrl and the breath(sniff) at the end, virtually on the "rrl" that seems to create that nice sound. On the point of circular breathing, you will notice that yolngu/traditional players generally keep their cheeks tightly in when they play even when breathing (no frog impressions!) they dont store up loads of air in their cheeks to be squeezed out to keep a rhythm going only to be built up again ready for the next time they begin to run out. Trad players dont in effect store air at all really, well not in their cheeks anyway (hence the flat cheeks) but top up their lungs with very small regular sniffs taken in at very regular intervals for example "dhirrl" sniff "dhirrl". A bit hard to explain in words but I find using my diaphram as I play, along of course with exhaling, makes it easier to sniff, virtually unnoticed. Try this; Open you mouth and then quickly pull in your diaphram do not use you lungs to exhale you will notice air is forced out of your mouth. As your diaphram relaxes it will automatically draw air back into your lungs!! Just change from mouth to nose as the air comes back in and you are taking a sniff! and no blown out cheeks. Apply this principle to your playing particulary the "D" of dhirrl (small diaphram pulse) along with the tongue flick back(the rest of the "hirrl")by the time you have done that your diaphram would have relaxed and you would have automatically taken in a sniff of air!! It may take a little while to perfect but a real step forward once you have it mastered. This can then form the basis of all your breathing needs when playing trad especially if you want to play fast and not run out of steam. As for how can you sound more trad, well try to get PV nailed as part of your playing from the start not like me years later, involve your throat more when using the tonged accents and not just the "mouth sounds" and like anything you want to get good at!!! practise, practise, practise, I am still on that road!!!

Paul

Khannan, your rhythmic sensibility is contemporary. Do a LOT of listening to trad playing so it can start to seep into you rhythmically. Trad rhythms are not just repeated fast figures, and the syllabic emphasis is different than what you are doing. You have a very strong downbeat sense and it is kind of like you are playing in English to a hip fast modern beat. You gotta learn the different rhythmic language/tongue movements and syncopation slowly first. Find slow tracks to practice with and listen hard and deep.

Guan has explained the forward Dith pop well. I can't add anything to that! I am still working at this, sometimes can get it well, while others still am challenged.

For added texture/depth/growl with Dhirrl, much of the depth comes from opening and relaxing the throat when the tongue is retroflexed. As the tip of the tongue moves up and back, the base of the tongue in the throat pulls down and opens up a large pocket down to the vocal cords. This allows the vibration to move/vibrate into the throat. For me, this is where I feel the real passive voice. When the yidaki or mago provokes this it is not an active vocal, but sympathetic resonance in the throat, and the growl and depth of sound just happen without trying. Once you get it. it actually takes effort to shut it off!

Breathing is reflexive at the tail end after the dhirrl, it should not need to be deliberate, and there is a little vocal accent/inflection that can sound like a tiny rise in pitch ot a little "whoop" sort of sound just from the throat transition when it opens up and allows the sniffed breath in. As with most of this stuff, this is something that is really easy to over analyze and over think, easier to just let happen once felt.

There can also be different variations in the double beat feel of the dhirrl depending on where you play it from predominantly, the tip of the tongue or the throat. If you play it all from the tip, it tends to be a short duplet that happens in the front of the rhythm kind ahead of the second beat. If you calm the tip of the tongue it can be produced from the throat alone, with deeper thouygh less sharp definition. this also moves the second beat of the duplet a little later. I'll post a sound file of this difference later.

I hope this is helpful, not more confusing.

Sound file hopefully demonstrating the difference between tip of tongue and throat and how they combine into a stronger deeper overall sound:

http://www.hickssticks.com/sound/tongue-throat.mp3

No Guan, it's not from Mi**ay's album, hence my writing and pointing it out...